Why is the social climate in the Sates so different from Vietnam?
I’m talking out of gratitude but both my father and I have been to Iraq and he was also in Vietnam and we were talking about how the Public is treating Soldiers better coming from Iraq then they did out of Vietnam. This time around there are no baby killer comments and we aren’t being seen as murders I was just curious what everyone thought the difference was in regards to the Military.
I cant speak for all Service Members but I can honestly say that more then half of us realize that speaking out against the war doesn’t translate in our heads as speaking out against Soldiers and is usually not taken as a hit against us or our chosen profession.
Home | Contact | About | Privacy Policy | Sitemap
Tags: baby killer, gratitude, iraq, murders, profession, service members, vietnam
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
This is a very good question.
Today, anybody in the Service is a pure volunteer, whatever reasons they joined up for, the fact is that they are volunteers, from the Private to the Full General. The armed forces are now also mich stricter in their entry requirements. It has an extremly hrash attitude agianst drug-taking and professionalism is drilled into the recruits’ heads during basic and the NCOs courses are tough.
Back then in Vietnam, things were very different . Congress did not declare war, instead it declared a resolution that allowed the President to conduct operations in Vietnam. However, the White House refused to activate the experienced Reserves, many whom had WW2 and Korean experience. Instead, 18 year olds were conscripted into 1 year service.
It was called the Draft. Back then, you could escape the draft if you were going into college or you were medically unfit. The result was that those whom were drafted were high-school dropouts, or unable to enter or pay for college. Also, large numbers of those drafted had problems with alcoholism and drug abuse. Many had already commited felonies.
The enlistees were given 9 weeks of basic training in a north american woodlands terrain learning tactics modelled after WW2. After that, they were sent into a tropical jungle with a completely different environment fighting an insurgency war. They never had any training in fighting insurgents.
Some of the enlistees were given only 6 weeks training to become NCOs. Some were chosen to become officers in a 14 week program.
At that time, cold war planners knew they could not risk attacking North Vietnam at all for fear of nuclear escalation. When you hear people talking about the Vietnam War, they are actually talking about the violence inside South Vietnam, not the fighting with the North.
The 1 year soldiers spent their own year in South Vietnam patrolling the rural areas of Vietnam over and over again. The US military and the south govt were safe enough in the cities and urban areas, but the countryside belonged to the insurgents. I’m sure you know what is patrolling. Now imagine patrolling a tropical environement for 3 days and go back to camp for 2 days and go back out for another 3 days.
And everytime you got out, you got shot at by insurgents that looked exactly like the civilians of the villages you went pass your patrol. Remeber, some of those draftees had criminal histories and they bought alcohol and drugs along with them during patrol.
Due to the stress, many of them snapped and committed war crimes against the rural population. They burned down the entire villages, burnt the crops and shot all the livestock. Its not like the villagers could go to a supermarket. Their very lives depended on their crops and animals. Several unspeakable atrocities were committed as well. As a result, many of them joined the insurgents.
It was quite common for a patrolling platoon to be led by a corporal or even a private , because the officers and NCOs stayed back at the base because they were afriad of being shot and killed the moment they left the base.
After their 1 year was up, they went back to the States. They had no contact with the incoming 1 year draftees that were replacing them. As a result, the new units were unable to obtain and build on the experience and advice of the ”veterans”
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
You’re talking about a different generation. The radical movements of the 60s was mostly the cause of how soldiers were treated after Vietnam. Now that that phase has passed soldiers are now treated differently for their efforts.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
You have hit the main reason on the head, both groups – if you like – see the other differently. The media has played a major role in this.
The world is a more complex place nowadays, and military personnel have a great deal more information about reality of war than ever previously. So, they can be both mentally as well as physically prepared before deciding to enlist.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
As far as I could see in films (I am not American; such reliable source, ha!), people were ENLISTING into the army to go to Vietnam, so they CHOSE to go there.
On the contrary, professional soldiers go wherever they are told to go and donot have a right to object.
I think this must have made the difference.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
I’m not quite sure i understand what you’re talking about could you clarify it with some detail please?
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
They used to spit on soldiers coming back from Vietnam. Maybe the draft had something to do with it. The population was younger I believe and there was the hippy culture. It lasted longer and there were several well publicized atrocities. The professionalism of the troops is probably very much higher now because they are not dragging people into it. You would think, since many had no choice in Vietnam, they wouldn’t have been treated so badly. If someone was seen spitting on a soldier today, he would risk getting the $&!t kicked out of him by people who saw it. It is a different world.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Soldiers in Vietnam were mostly draftees. It was also the first unpopular recent war and everyone was all about peace, love, rebelling against parents, government, and police. There was just a much stronger movement of people who "protested" the war.
Also I beleive that it was the first televised war with images coming back of things most people in the US had never seen before. Nowadays, we see Israel get car bombed and 40-50 people die, were immuned to it. So when we go to war with IRAQ, were like hard to it. We understand that civillians die in war and this is what dead people look like.
I also think people have alot more compassion for the troops now because again, I think people are smarter or a bit "wiser" and know that the Military’s goal is to pray for peace, prepare for war. They know that the US Military is there for our protection but feel for them because they hear about the re-deployments, PTSD, iED’s, 17 year old troops dying, lying recruiters, and of course, A BULLSHIT WAR! Society now most likely feels that the ones who give up their freedoms for ours are being duped, tricked, used, whatever you want to call it.
People almost feel bad for the troops as opposed to Vietnam where there was more "baby killer comments". I would just like to see this all end and soldiers come back to the U.S.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Well, it it is just an opinion…but, I think the people that are protesting this war actually learned something for the protesters mistakes in Vietnam. But…not all of of them have…have you heard the stories about people showing up at soldiers funerals to protest the war.
This is not acceptable behavior from my point of view. This family didn’t make the decisions that sent their son or daughter into combat. And saying farewell to their hero shouldn’t be made into a political statement by anyone!
And, anyone that would do this is nothing more than a coward in my mind. They want the rights…but, they fail to see these rights sometimes have a price. And, to disgrace someones final moments that was willing to fight for them…it is lower that the lowest type of parasite
I am not sure that I agree with all of the reasons why we are there…but, at this point it doesn’t matter….we are there…and we have to win. I would like to see a greater latitude given to our troops to deal with threats…before they happen. But, then again we aren’t the people that make that decision.
God Bless…and you have my greatest thanks and respect for serving.
I come from a military family too…from everyone that I have talked to that was in Vietnam…none of them wanted to be there. Although, I do know people that volunterred for three tours to make sure someone else didn’t have to go. But, even these people didn’t want to be there. They where there because they had the experience and maybe they could keep more of our people alive. Enough said.